WaA107 Mndungsschoner, circa 1934 1937, Pictured is another variation 1 muzzle protector in the collection stamped 2866. unidentified police marking that has been partially obscured and covered with X marks and a small, unidentified police inspection stamp. These bayonets also originally had a Prussian Eagle adorned clam shell device under the grip. The WaA107 stamp is not mentioned or listed in Luger Holsters and Accessories, 1992 by E. Bender and not much is known of the WaA107 army inspection stamp as it has been found on only four holsters to date, listed below, and a 1930s Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector: Pictured is another variation 1 muzzle protector in the collection stamped 2866 with an additional, unidentified police marking that has been partially obscured and covered with X marks and a small, unidentified police inspection stamp. Based on the year 1924 the holster is most likely brown. Serial number stamped on the back corner 9436. Over all good condition. The weirdest part is the stamp on the inside back panel. view 2 and This association is not supported by any distinguishing markings different from any other Landjgerei marked Police holsters. Additionally, by restricting the insertion of the cleaning rod end, with affixed Reinigungsgdocht[6] or cleaning wick flush to the chamber face, prevents it from becoming detached, which could happen with a longer cleaning rod extending beyond the barrel/receiver chamber face. 19-172 text caption. German weapons and equipment until 1937, when unit marking of materiel was Pictured together for comparison are a Police cleaning rod with a brass stopper and a navy cleaning rod. links[1]='http://www.cashicollection.com'; The subject Police holster E/Mg10 stamping is recognized by collectors as authentic, based on three examples seen on WwMg/41 dated WW2 military issued P08 holsters. Pictured for comparison are examples 1 and 2. Pictured is an unknown maker German Police As always, I'm not responsible for any inaccuracies in the data, just for On many Police Bayonets there are not only stamped numbers, but there were also letters proceeding the numbers that identified the city from where the bayonet was used during the Weimar period. Featured is a WW2 police style holster marked WaAJL16 on the rear between the bell loops along with a 4-digit 1108 believed to be a Police P.08 serial number. Each faded green soft cover Lehrbuch or text book was printed using the early offset printing process consisting of 231 pages of Weimar era Police "Guidelines". 19-130 text caption Sturgess specifically states that the cleaning rod pouch of the pictured cut-back artillery to police holster, currently of the LOB collection, was modified to carry the police cleaning rod with added brass stopper, which is inaccurate as the police brass stop cleaning rod with a seven ring wooden handle cannot be inserted past the added, upper leather cleaning rod pouch section, securing cover flap brass stud as the bell-shaped, rather large 13 m/m diameter brass stopper, permanently affixed to the much smaller 5.5 m/m diameter of the steel cleaning rod, engages the protruding internal metal retaining lip of the added cleaning rod pouch brass stud. LUGER POLICE P-08 MAGAZINE. Since the HZa used the WaAJt instead of the HZaJt stamp, I would suspect it was a new made item and not a reissued piece. The right side of the slide has a weimar eagle with WaA66 below. Pictured is a brown leather example with regulation holster body attached holster body spare magazine pouch with up-strap and cover flap keeper slit and steel stud closure. Bie der Reubearbeitung des Kap. There are several markings on the holster. Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. regulations issued in 1922, and are shown in the following table. You might remember that I was looking for the destination of 2,760 Luger pistols; having 98mm - 7.65mm barrels that came from Berlin to Oberndorf. it is stamped on the rear with the original holstered police Luger serial number 5008. fortunately the holster still retains the matching 5008 serial number stamped loading tool. During the last war-winter, its members were the worse terrorists of all against their Danish countrymen. 1929 police luger markings on side plate and back of frame User Name: Remember Me? VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. In the manual is pictured the P.08 Luger on pages 17 and 26. ad[4]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/oldbrigade.jpg'; Army, Navy, Police, "Indeed, I am in strong support of your thesis that all Luger pistols that went to the H.P contract were produced and delivered by DWM in 1929. 2 Policing Germany, including Police Unit Marks Chapt. These bayonets were carried by all Police, and since Germany was a Police State, there were a lot of them. That will teach me not to depend on my memory! With the reorganization of the police carried out on 6 October 1920, the factual responsibility of the new police has been considerably expanded. Potsdam=Eiche, im Juni 1921. Another vexing issue is Weimar photos that shows groups of NCO Police with a mix of ordinary belt buckles and rectangular box style Weimar Prussian eagles and other Weimar Police photos of what looks to be all NCO personnel with ordinary belt buckles, suggesting the vast majority of Weimar era Police wore plain belt buckles. The blade was shortened from 17 inches to 13 inches. (May indicate manufacture or rework.) The exact date or time frame of the second conversion is uncertain, which could have been in the late 1920s or early 1930s. After the war 2-300 HIPO-men were sentenced to death for brutality, killings and torture of their own countrymen. administrative district, Enumeration of centuria, or factory numbers, or property numbers, Berlin And when new information comes out, sometimes "old" information is shown to be wrong. Taming the SFAR: How Ruger's Small-Frame .308 Runs Suppressed. luger1. It is fortunate that both books stayed together since 1921 and were acquired as a set, both signed by the original owner. 113-114 - A combination of new information and reconsideration leads me to believe that the Type 3 markings S.D.I, II, III, IV and VI represented the large Schupo commands in Essen, Wuppertal, Dsseldorf, Duisburg-Hamborn and Oberhausen, respectively. centered in the federal states of Prussia, Bavaria, Baden, Wuerttemberg, Fr soll an dem inneren Miederausbau mit= arbeiten, die ffentliche Gicherheit, Ordnung und Ruhe frdern und vor allem jedem Brger die Mglichteit geben, seiner sittlichen Bflicht zur Bettigung seiner geistigen und trperlichen Krfte zum Mohle der Gesamtheit zu gengen. It is curious that the Hannover Police markings, S. Hn. Pictured is a 1943 dated SCHAMBACH & Co. -BERLIN police holster with a unique eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police B inspection stamp; view 1, view 2 and view 3. Shown is an apparently cold police officer in front of a Weimar era Polizeiwache or Police Station with the final, second pattern design police holster. Ventura, CA 93006, USA.) This example has all matching serial numbers. Lugers and P38 Markings MarshalZhukov 4.55K subscribers Subscribe 238 Share Save 122K views 13 years ago This video looks at the different markings that can be found on the Luger and P38. In actuality, both above statements are correct, as the first statement that a majority of the cut-back LP.08 holsters used by the police are without a police cleaning rod is accurate, however, in cannot be denied that some, at least one, in this instance, was modified (unsuccessfully), specifically to carry the police cleaning rod as evidenced the very rare subject example. Pictured below are several Police Training and Instruction manuals dating from 1921 through 1949. of Stettin. the transcription. Pictured is a 1941 dated OTTO SINDEL BERLIN police holster with an eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp; view 1, the precincts held the long cleaning rods, similar to the navy P.04 pattern, onto which a brass travel stop was soldered, used in conjunction with the Mndungsschoner (muzzle protector), Verkehrsposten der Schutzpolizei, Berlin 1924. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Furthermore, later style, purportedly Magdeburg Depot rework Mg10 Stick Wing eagle stamps have been identified on the rear frame of P08 Lugers that are much smaller than the earlier and larger Weimar eagle style E/Mg10 stampings of the 41 dated WwMg/41 and E/Mg10 P08 holsters and of the subject Police holster. German manufactured commercial holster, original pistol model unknown, as identified by ink stampings located on the inside cover flap, WALTHER POLIZEI-PISTOLEN PP / PPK und ihre Handhabung, an equally rare 1936 Walther PP/PPK 50 year commemorative flyer. The magazine has a blued tube and aluminum base. 3 days Left DWM 1906 SWISS POLICE LUGER SEMI-AUTO PISTOL. equipment during the Imperial and Weimar eras. It has a 100mm (4") barrel, is modified as a police issue with a sear and magazine safety, plus it has a police unit identification markings. 9mm Luger Caliber. Otherwise, the magazine has no proof stamps or markings besides the serial number. DWM "1920" Date Police Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol Rig Fixed sights, with "1920" on the chamber, Weimar-era proofs on the barrel and receiver, and a pair of police safeties installed (sear safety present but weak, magazine safety disabled). Eagle/L proofed aluminum bottom magazine is not. Included with the lot is a black leather flap holster (converted from Artillery to Police configuration, renumbered to match pistol, extensive hand . ----------------------------------------------------------- page 10 ----------------------------------------------------------. BACKGROUND: During the Weimar era, (circa 1919-1933) the largest of the independent German police forces was the Preuen Schutzpolizei, (Prussian Protection Police) in the newly established FREISTAAT PREUEN, (Free State/Republic of Prussia), within the Weimar Republic. RARE W.W.II GERMAN POLICE LUGER MAUSER HOLSTER - OTTO STUERTZ ALLENSTEIN. Eagle over 83 is the marking for the responsable acceptance office for Mauser (WaA83). Pictured is a brown leather example with regulation holster body attached holster body spare magazine pouch with up-strap and cover flap keeper slit and steel stud closure. This was removed and the hilt was shortened accordingly. But you must recognize that; being a researcher yourself! There are other, more obscure WW1 or Weimar era police organization affiliated belt buckles with unique design emblems. Pictured for comparison are two different examples of Artillery holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass studs with demonstrably different shapes and sizes or dimensions. The S.E.I. Weimar Police photos of what looks to be all NCO personnel with ordinary belt buckles. A 1914 Gustav Reinhardt Berlin example 1 and a 1915 P. Braunleder Cln example 2. Buy Very Rare 1941 BYF41 Luger Army- Police P08 Mauser German Pistol 9mm P38: GunBroker is the largest seller of Curios & Relics Collectible Firearms All: 966966512 subcommissions and left Germany during January 1927. the interpretation of German unit marks is outside the scope of the Most of them are out of date: on the other hand, so many regulations have been added recently that it would be difficult for the novice to find out the right thing. In addition, the Guide provides guidance on wages and pension issues for the police. Any aluminium based or black plastic based magazine (without serial number) would be correct for this gun. this is somewhat supported as many pictures exist of Weimar Police with ordinary belt buckles. S.B.S.I 1.7 - item 7 in the 1st Centuria within command I of the South As to whether any police Lugers were used in caliber 7.65 mm is uncertain, however, one example pictured in Luger Variations by Harry Jones 1959, page 291 titled: 1920 POLICE WITH CHAMBER MARKINGS with the claim that during police service the Sear Safety Luger was chambered for the 7.65 m/m cartridge. Police Lugers by Edward B. Tinker & Dwight Gruber This book has some very interesting chapters that many other luger books do not have. though provides no picture. Knowledge is power, this applies to everyone who is in public life and strives forwards, but especially for the police officers, because his job brings him into close contact with the population every hour. Each state (Pomerania, Prussia, Silesia, etc.) The finish is very good and this model has a hold open latch and stock lug. Luger DWM 1906 Navy, 9mm, 2nd issue. Caliber 7.65mm - 4.75" barrel. I own a u suffix luger with a blank toggle. 1908/13 five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger. N.b.5. Several Weimar Era Police pictures that show the box or rectangular shape belt buckles have been identified, yet veryfew examples of a Police Officer or group wearing a FREISTAAT The die application was quite sloppy in some areas, an example being the loading tool pouch located inside the cover flap where the black die was applied with the cover flap closed. view 3. Die neue Reichs= und die preusishe Bersassung haben bereits einige wichtige Orgnzungen ersahren: weitere Gestze sind in nachster Zeit zu erwarten. My reference book (The Standard Catalog of Luger by Aarron Davis, page 103) shows the eagle with PTV over it. NowThis holster displays three distinct branches of service either real or fake. On later production guns, matching numbered magazines enhance value. Opinion 1: I have come across a very nice WW1 style holster that has some unusual markings. The E/WaAJL16 is, by all accounts to date, similar to, or a variation of, the acceptance stamp for Factory Guard/Werkschutz issue. As an example, a major Luger dealer, who occasionally offers Note the non-standard vertical location of added metal belt buckle and strap/keeper cover flap holster, the subject cut-back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 holster police marked, the bottom edge of the holster body inner liner, Pictured is a WW1 P08 army holster modified to a Police holster in the 1920s, whereas other identified, non-holster Hannover markings, such as Police P08s. Police Lugers: German Police Lugers & their markings, 1918-1958 by Tinker. The results cause us collectors no end of confusion, 78 years later. These considerations must form the basis for the training of the police officer. In Third Reich Lugers 1988 by J. Im ubrigen hat aber das Bestreben vorgeherrscht, den Iert und Uusbau des Buches mglicht in seiner bisherigen Form zu warhen. view 2 and view 3. . It cites It worked through various RIA 2018, Bahnschutz RBD Halle S holster offering, The first modification was from an artillery holster to a police holster in the early to mid-1920s by cutting back to a P.08, 4-inch barrel length and is the first example not to add a toe plug, but instead by closing out or terminating the holster body toe like a standard P.08 holster. Pictured is a brown leather 1929 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst K police inspection stamp and marked L.H. This is German WWI Naval crown m marked on the left receiver. Retains the original loops on the back for straps, no belt loops. Heinrich Krieghoff - Suhl, Germany At least six pre-production Lugers are known to exist. As you see - new evidence produces mostly new questions. WaA107 Hans Rmer Neu-Ulm, Donau 1936. The holster was dyed black as evidenced on the holster body back panel original brown color. The new Pictured is a disassembled view of the subject aftermarket P08 marked and police stick wing acceptance stamped, variation 1 muzzle protector. Pictured are view 1, view 2 and view 3 of the subject Police holster. The original brown leather holster was probably dyed/swabbed black, at this time, to conform to regulations. the folded-over or closed holster body toe of the pictured 1924 example that twin belt loops were added to the holster rear. A very similar style of eagle can be found on Gewehr 98 rifles. 4 days Left WW2 ERA GERMAN POLICE LUGER HOLSTER RIG $150 . When reworking the chap. Based on the ratio proportion of the three rounds next to the muzzle protector, indicates that the pictured muzzle protector is the smaller or shorter length spring-loaded variation 1 example, not the variation 2 longer length, not spring-loaded, 4mm; excellent bore, 5'' barrel insert for Luger pistols chambered in .30 Luger (7.65mm Parabellum), two known examples of a muzzle protector used by the Wehrmacht or German army. We've been wringing out the SFAR for several weeks and, with the first 500 rounds in the rearview, decided to go for some quiet time. German Army. While lacking a rear horizontal stitch line, the holster body cavity rear panel is secured at the lower edge by the lower belt loop stitching. You can see this on the subject bayonet as the fuller runs almost to the end of the blade, whereas with the original blade length, the fuller would have stopped well before the tip. collar slot aligned and properly threaded, leaving a proper space allowing the There's a number "1" above the serial number on the base, which is indicative of police issued magazines, as the police numbered their magazines this way. stamping for another letter or number, but since the upper portion of the left side rectangle enclosure line is partially obscured by the steel washer, resulting in a light stamping, missing a possible letter or number, which is a result of stamping too close to the underside washer, securing the cover flap steel stud. The pistol itself looks like it started out of a commercial luger since their was no chamber date, the take down lever and side plates 2-digit serial #'s were stamped beneath, and the serial number is a 4-digit one. Das geistige Rstzeug fr seine Umtsausbung muss er so vllig besitzen, das ser jederzeit das Rechte trifft. Sturgess additionally describes the police cleaning rod in the Fig. The first 1920s Weimar era police Luger holster of new manufacture to be recognized as such is not manufacture marked is a black dyed leather, full cover flap with a holster body attached, pear-shaped up-strap secured to the cover flap without a keeper via the leather slit and brass stud method. Opinion 3: I strongly believe what you have is a Heeres-Zeugamt produced holster. Police arms had a We talked to a subject matter expert who repairs WW1 / WW2 h If it is made after 1918it is a reproduction. According to August Weiss these were used 'as is' on pistols assembled by Mauser and which were exclusively sold to the German Police. The German purpose about HIPO was clear: To help Gestapo as a Danish helping-police. Chapter 1 Making Modern Germany Chapter 2 Policing Germany, including Police Unit Marks From the Dr. Geoffrey Sturgess collection. The tube is in excellent condition with most . is the only publication that is very specific as to its use, unfortunately, 1. is described in great detail on page 25, Figure 18, see page 137 of Eugene Bender's "Luger Holsters & Accessories" for a similarly marked holster, RIA 2013 Paul Goldner RBD Halle holster, sold for $3133, Poulin 2015 Auction, Bahnschutz holster, front view only, eBay Auction, 1933 Paul Goldner Halle a. S. holster, RIA 2018, Bahnschutz RBD Halle S holster offering, Luger Holsters & Their Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, M. Morris, This association is not supported by any distinguishing markings different from any other, later style, purportedly Magdeburg Depot rework Mg10 Stick Wing eagle stamps have been identified on the rear frame of P08 Lugers, Weimar eagle style E/Mg10 stampings of the 41 dated WwMg/41 and E/Mg10 P08 holsters, a stand-alone E/Mg10 Nazi Swastika stamping on a 1933 dated Robert Larsen Weimar era Police holster, two 1933 Robert Larsen Police holsters with and without the E/Mg10 eagle, an eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp, a unique eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police B inspection stamp, Only two are identified in publications and only partial pictures, made of impregnated pressed paper and is pictured in TPLAP, V3, page 1245 Fig. S.Al.II 1. It is uncertain how long the holster remained in the pre-1928 first conversion, shortened LP.08 police pattern as the balance of the changes that constitute the second conversion are unique to this holster, starting with the removal of the up-strap, cover flap keeper and brass stud, plugging the cover flap stud anchor hole, and replacing the original artillery up-strap with a non-standard for a police holster, originally black paint/enamel coated metal belt buckle, keeper and strap cover flap closure. Clearly identified on the facing edge holster spine is a period artillery Luger cleaning rod pouch with brass stud and leather slit cover flap. Signed & Numbered by both authors. A rare DWM Model 1900 U.S. Army Test Eagle Luger in 7.65mm is up for grabs as well. (Bavarian) State Police. A complete discussion of Luger Holsters & Their Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, M. Morris. $1,000. A very similar style of eagle can be found on Gewehr 98 rifles. (motor transport seciont), Sonderwagenstaffel der Kraftfahrabteilung (armored vehicle squadron), Polizei-Reitschule (police equestrian school), Assigned to although some examples have been modified to a single loop belt carry by rotating the German Police Lugers and their markings 1918-1958 by Edward B. Tinker and Dwight Gruber; 2012 I'll leave it to Joop to fill in the details if he wishes, but the record indicates that substantial numbers of the 29DWM variation were completed and proofed in Berlin, but were "unfinished" (no bluing etc.) Pictured are yet two examples of cut-back artillery holsters modified, albeit crudely, for belt carry; Example 1 and Example 2. Best, Pat He who lives by the sword, should train with it frequently. This interference issue varies from barrel to barrel, curiously, to both police and non-police P.08 9mm Lugers, depending on the width of the sight blade sliding base. German military and police units, one can sometimes derive some WWI History after Treaty of Versailles: German production of 9mm pistols was prohibited. two-step attachment process, requiring 1) a threaded, slotted, circular Einwohnerwehr in 1921. Magistrat und Polizeiverwaltung Stadt Reichenbach=Municipality and police administration City Reichenbach, Knigl. Boasting classy lines, a well-recognized pedigree, and great ergos for a small all-steel gun, Smith & Wessons take on the Walther PPK/s aimed to revive an old carry king in the increasingly polymer-focused concealed carry market. German firearms are loaded with a variety of markings and stamps. 3. Not in the news1 million cops flawlessly protected you Life in the Third Reich & Weimar Republic, Kriegsmarine surface ships and Kriegsmarine in general, Luftwaffe air units and Luftwaffe in general, German Strategy & General German Military Discussion, NSDAP, other party organizations & Government, The Dieter Zinke Axis Biographical Research Section, The Ron Klages Panzer & other vehicles Section, Panzer & other vehicles - Photo threads, Axis Documents, Feldpost numbers, Postcards & Other Paper Items, The United Kingdom & its Empire and Commonwealth 1919-45, The Allies and the Neutral States in general, German Colonies and Overseas Expeditions, The end of the Ottoman Empire 1908-1923, Translation help: Breaking the Sound Barrier. Regarding the completely intact magazine safety of 4559t, very few of these police Lugers survived as nearly all of these magazine safety assemblies were deactivated by cutting off the front end of the mechanism under a decree of May 1937. This Police holster definitely was used in two different locations or districts as indicated by the S. Hn. The Publisher. Thread Tools: Display Modes Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 14,000 Price Realized: Outstanding World War II Nazi 1941 Dated Single Digit Serial Number 3y Mauser Banner Eagle/L Police Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol with Two Matching Magazines and 1941 Dated Police Holster Manufacturer: Mauser Model: P08 Type: Pistol Gauge: 9 mm Luger Barrel: 3 7/8 inch round Finish: blue To the best of our knowledge, all the examples shown are original pre-1945 manufacture. Spain controlled two small mountainous sections of Northern Morocco that were separated by a bay. Interestingly, this example used the expected regulation police holster up-strap and stud closure. OK, now I'm getting confused again! It is interesting that the well-known Luger dealer that sold the Sturgess cut-back LP.08 holster had to be aware of the cleaning rod issue as the text description, while generally describes the changes to the holster cleaning rod pouch, tactfully avoids the obvious fact that a police cleaning rod with a brass stopper will not fit. edge of the barrel sight band/block. It is not known if the J. Walter, page 149 pictured muzzle protector is police acceptance marked, although he does specifically state that the pictured, variation 1 muzzle protector was used in conjunction with the police cleaning rod. Kriminalpolizei (detective force), Assigned to Based on the ratio proportion of the three rounds next to the muzzle protector, clearly indicates that the pictured muzzle protector is the smaller or shorter length spring-loaded variation 1 example and not the variation 2 longer length, not spring-loaded ERMA made muzzle protector. The side cover and the left high edge has mild wear. This allows the cleaning of the barrel and receiver chamber without any damage to the barrel muzzle face or damaging contact to the breechblock face. Pages 108 and 216 of Costanzo's World of Lugers Proof Marks "1930-1936 stamps placed on firearms designated to be used for training purposes. 1928 (Undated) "Riff" Berlin Mauser Rig (Police) SOLD. steel rod with brass muzzle stop for 4-inch barrel P.08 Luger pistols with out and what appears to be a Nazi issue number 522 added to the scabbard metal throat and bayonet handle cross-bar. The wooden cased German pistol cleaning kits were, apparently, not made exclusively for the P.08 Luger as a 1946 German police instruction manual titled: Die Pistolen der Polizie, dated Dresden 1946 specifically lists several pistols, including the P.08, although other pistols listed are mostly 7.65 mm caliber, all used by the German Police after WW2. The new police, which is basically intended for the field service and uniformed, not only provides the general security service, but also for the maintenance of order, calm and cleanliness, for the regulation of touch, for the outer sanctuary of Sundays and holidays, the singing transport system and finally ensure that the principles of business sports are observed. Is wird daher fr alle Polizeibeamten, die mit dem Inhalt des Buches vertraut sind, ein leichtes sein, sich auch in der vorliegenden Reubearbeitung ohne Schwierigteit zurechtzusinden. The HZA stampings are described by Costanzo as being found on P.08 Lugers issued to security guards of military installations only, with no mention of the WaAJL16 being marked on P.08 style Police holsters. Decoding these proof marks is very useful in determining the age and history of the gun. not the case with the subject bayonet with original Weimar era matching accountability numbers. Pictured above are two books, Band I or Volume I Only one other example has ever been documented. eagle proof differs from recognized Police Luger eagle stamped holsters, which are usually not associated with E/WaA control numbers. The conventional wisdom is that these were manufactured in 1929. Most observed are reworks with double date or blank chambers of DWM and ERFURT.(shown below) The eagle proof differs from recognized Police Luger eagle stamped holsters, which are usually not associated with E/WaA control numbers. Pictured is the holster used with the 1950s Bahnpolizei FN 1922 pistol, separate and together with pistol. Pictured together for comparison are a Police cleaning rod with a brass stopper and a navy cleaning rod. Weapon no. arms of this police force were a source of comflict with the IMKK, who Nachr. Barrel proof, some 1920 Police and Double Dated Lugers. This holster was used in the NAZI era as indicated by the holster body Eagle/Swastika stamp. Still. The bases for these identifications are as follows: a. Without delay, lets get into the coolest of the bunch: DWM Model 1900 7.65mm Ejercito Mexicano marked commercial pistol made in hopes of gaining contracts with the Mexican military. similar restriction. Five Complete Chapters covered by the book include: Chapt. Muenchen (Munich procurement office), Wirtschaftsamt I agree with Pat on the PTV marking. No tool pouch. Checkered walnut grips are not numbered. Waffenfabrik Bern - Bern, Switzerland&break;7. indicated by the 220mm, short length pull-through chain. Die Pistolen der Polizie, dated Dresden 1946, other pistols listed are mostly 7.65 mm caliber, Pictured is an excellent condition WW2 S98 Police Bayonet, a 1935 dated Police style Robert Larsen-BERLIN TP stamped holster, a rare 1908/13 triple C/X proofed commercial/military/Police Luger sn 69859. Police Luger ? by Igorak89 05 May 2016, 21:24, Post (non-P08) Pistols & Holsters. View First Unread . "Jt" being the abbreviation for the Ingolstadt HZa. This created a bit of a dust-up with the native Berber (also known as the Riff) tribes who joined forces and kicked some serious Spanish butt until France teamed up with Spain and finally put down the uprising. Since the first edition was published in February d. Zs. There are many possible combinations of Potsdam = Oak*, in June 1921. Pictured are multiple views of the four brass studs and their dimensions used with the subject holster. Numbers are matching except for firing pin. Box 7184, This example is a very rare 1943 dated military contract piece in 9mm, one of just 300 produced that year. var ad=new Array() Per Luger collectors the E/Mg10 marking is rarely encountered. pistols were rejected at the acceptance procedure it would explain that these were replaced with some pistols in the v block. The following tables list the base forms for police unit marks found in Below is continuing description of the second and final conversion. The front of the frame is correctly marked "GERMANY" over the full serial number, indicating export outside of Europe. Weimar era Police cleaning rods are easily identified by their 7-ring wooden barrel type handles vs. the Imperial era artillery LP.08 and navy P.04 with their 6-ring wooden barrel type wooden handles. FN Browning M1922 7.65 mm pistol, stamped, interestingly. Faint, illegible makers markings are stamped inside the cover flap. Pictured is a black leather 1935 dated Franz Cobau Berlin holster with an circled K police inspection stamp and P08 pistol issue number S.P.R. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 9 ----------------------------------------------------------. Mauser Sneak Police. Pictured is a 1942 dated A. Fischer Berlin C.2 police holster with an eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp; view 1 and view 2. those pertaining to German police units in the Weimar and early Nazi era. 3 Arming Weimar Germany, including Weimar Police Lugers, the Sear Safety, the Magazine Safety, profiles of Weimar Police Lugers, Police holsters, Police Magazines and Police tools & miscellaneous. According to the Standard Catalog of Luger by Davis the meaning of this marking is unknown. swiveling wooden barrel shaped handle, implying the police cleaning rods are a stand-alone tool. DWM Luger Identification Guide. ad[0]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/germanmilitaria.jpg'; What magazine variation is proper for your Luger P.08? These cut-back LP.08 holsters were used or at least modified/converted until 1928 when a new style of police holster was introduced without a holster spine attached cleaning rod sleeve, replacing it with a spare magazine pouch. If you are looking for something similarly long, RIA has a Farsi-marked Persian contract Mauser Artillery Luger with an 8-inch barrel. Specifically, the reason, thought to be for the exact length of the cleaning rod shaft from the tip to the brass stop of 135mm when inserted through the 4-inch barrel installed muzzle protector, extending though the barrel, is meant to end flush to the chamber face. Reportedly next to the remaining lot of 2,760 of these readied blank toggle pistols also a small quantity of unmarked toggles came from Berlin to Oberndorf. links[7]='https://www.marnamilitaria.com'; with LANDESPOLIZEI [7] (State Police) FR WRTTEMBERG-HOHENZOLLERN[8] marked on the Pictured are multiple views of the four brass studs and their dimensions used with the subject holster. The matching serial number is marked on the barrel extension, front of the frame and bottom of the barrel with the partial number "33 on most small parts including the inside of each grip panel. If one were to attempt to take a WW1 holster & bubba it up for profit. This was forbidden by the Treaty of The second modification occurred in 1929 or possibly much later to comply with the new police holster requirements, by eliminating the cleaning rod sleeve/pouch and adding a spare magazine pouch. included provisions for two spare magazines, cleaning rod, box of period ammunition and a loading tool. var links=new Array() information about where such materiel have been (e.g., which battles in This is a Luger P08 without Nazi markings! new style of police holster was introduced without a holster spine attached cleaning rod sleeve, replacing it with a spare magazine pouch. by Poot 06 May 2016, 17:38, Post 355. links[8]='http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com'; with the following rear cover page translations, of which both Volume I and Volume II front and rear covers are identical, with the rear cover upper paragraph statement: The "Guide" compiled in when raising the height of the cleaning rod pouch sleeve by adding a piece of leather, at the time simply removed or did not add the lower brass stud, extending the longer section, lower leather piece to where it covered the existing brass stud location. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 12 ----------------------------------------------------------, Pictured is an exceptional example of one such Police officer private purchase, unmarked and unmodified Weimar era Police clamshell dress bayonet. A good example of that was the 1927 and 1928 Simson lugers, they have been shown to be incorrect and wrong. One of GT's luger mounts arrived a couple of days ago. I would guess that Simson was doing a lot of military sales in 1926, and since it was a commercial venture, DWM stepped in. Sturgess in TBLAP also states that the new police cleaning rods were issued to each police pistol, further stating in the Fig. Nazi Lugers and their Accessories, by Jan C. Still, printed by 3 days Left MAUSER C96 RED 9 POLICE, SIMSON REWORK. Rock Island Auctions has over 100 Lugers at their upcoming Premier Auction in May including carbines and artillery models and rare pistols meant for Persian, American, and Russian markets. A 1925 dated report of the IMKK notes noncompliance and Luger wooden box cleaning kit. These HZA markings, excluding the WaAJL16 stampings which, as Costanzo states was specifically used by police forces guarding warehouses operated by the Heerszeugment. 1920. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- 1918 Dingeldey & Werres-Berlin cut-back artillery to police holster, Luger holstered s/n 5008. 18: . Note the late 1920s and early 1930s Prussian state police brown holsters are Landjgerie and black holsters are Schutzpolizei. The purpose of the added entrance leather section with a second brass stud to the cleaning rod pouch is therefore unclear, and without removing the original brass stud creates a second barrier to inserting the cleaning rod, however, there is no issue with the insertion of a navy, six ring wooden barrel handle, 5.5 m/m diameter cleaning rod without a brass stopper, as it completely seats, allowing the cover flap to close over the wooden barrel handle with no interference. Army, Navy, Police, The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Still further states: Reportedly, muzzle protectors were issued with some Prussian State Police Lugers. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 2 ----------------------------------------------------------. Unit marks were applied to many kinds of German military and police (BSP) (Railway Protection Police) as identified by ink stampings located on the inside cover flap being BAHN SCHUTZ and RBD/Rbd (ReichsBahnDirektionen) ESSEN (RUHR). Pistols and Holsters. 03-16-2021 11:59 AM by mrerick. (communications training The only marking is the Akah company logo on the back side, between the belt loops. (A fairly common occurrence.) This would account for the Luftwaffe acceptance stamp. Die neue Polizii, welche grunstzlich fr den Uusendienst bestimmt und uniformiert ift, versieht nicht nur den allgemeinen Sicherheitsdienst, fondern hat auch fr die Frhaltung der Ordnung, Ruhe und Reinlichteit, fr die Bertehrsregelung, fr die uissere heilghaltung der Sonn= und Feiertage, das Gesangenentransportwesen und schlieslich fr die Beachtung der wirtschastsportwesen Grundstze Sorge zu tragen. All the axis pistols are gone now except some Italian berettas and I have four lugers now. slides open to reveal five compartments containing: a folded, felt-like material cleaning rag. Please report any errors to me. 4. WaAJL16. 19-130. Polizeiwehr This set of two is consecutively numbered. As Dwight's database shows, most of the blank toggle Lugers have "t" and "u" serial number suffixes. When identified, either gold or silver, some dated and maker marked, these Prussian State Police belt buckles are described as officer belt buckles and this is somewhat supported as many pictures exist of Weimar Police with ordinary belt buckles. $500. It is speculated that the shift was also motivated by the need to communicate with occupied territories during WW2 and the use of Fraktur would inhibit that communication. Still, however, somewhat refutes his prior reportedly statements, five years later in Weimar Lugers 1993 on page 181, Figure 47a text caption where he dismisses the (carry) use of the police cleaning rods with cut-back artillery Luger holsters where he states that: These (police cleaning) rods probably remained in Army or police stations as the brass stop prevents them for fitting in holsters. In the TBLAP, Fig. links[2]='http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com'; 19-105, formally of the Dr. G.L. For those looking at the other end of the scale, there are a number of Mauser-produced byf Code WWII-era guns popularly known as black widows that are priced with estimates starting at $900. 19-130 text caption: A post-WW1 new manufactured police issue cleaning rod with soft-soldered stop for use with the Mndungsschoner for the P.08.These were issued to the police on a scale of one per pistol.Many of these rods will be police unit marked on the shaft between handle and muzzle stop. WWI). My question, please forive if its too absurd, is" Why weren't the Riff Contract pistols ordered from the Simson Co.?" Another NAZI era example being the Walther PP and PPK pistols pictured in Axis Pistols 1986 by J. 2 St 16 - item 16 of the 2nd patrol unit. Knowing that, and having the history of the 355. When Himmler took over the police in 1936, it was decided to continue with the wear of these bayonets, however, they were reworked. Chapter 4 3rd Reich Police Lugers Chapter 5 DDR Deutsche Volkspolizei (People's Police) Lugers a complete catalog of Police Luger Markings The book has . jeb111. Example 2. Mge auch die zweite Uuslage jedem Polizeibeamten weiterhin ein gutter Fhrer auf dem schwierigen Gebiete des polizeilichen Missens sein. Pictured is a WW1 P08 army holster modified to a Police holster in the 1920s or possibly early 1930s by removing the angled buckle and strap closure, converting to the police type closure by adding a pull-up strap to the holster body and adding a steel stud[4] and leather keeper strip to the cover flap. Thanks to everyone who has added to this excellent and informative thread. Pictured is another variation 1 style police S. B. Over all good condition. The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in Despite the fact that both Weimar Lugers and Pictured are two 1933 Robert Larsen Police holsters with and without the E/Mg10 eagle and multiple views of the subject Police holster, being view 1, view 2, view 3 and view 4. Was it a difference in caliber or what is obvious that I am missing. Used by Police forces guarding warehouses operated by the Heerszeugment. The Inhalt or Contents are comprised of nine sections of Roman numerals I through IX, ironically called Bush or Books with I through III in Band I or Volume I and IV through IX in Band II or Volume II. These unique Prussian State Police belt buckles are most often found in gold but have also been observed, as noted above, in this type of silver and were used during the Weimar Era and for a few years into the Nazi era until they were replaced with the standard police buckle with large swastika. Bavarian State Police (Landespolizei), 1930. This information came from a small book I have named The Luger Handbook by Aarron Davis. Erfurt Luger Unit Marking. locking the two-piece assembly in place. Stay in the know. The gun was converted to a German Police Luger during the Nazi era sometime between 1928, the year of manufacture, and 1934 by adding a sear safety and forward gripstrap Police marking, longitudinally stamped "S.M. The word itself 'HIPO' is a shortening in German of HIlfs-POlizei (i.e. He does not mention if the pistols had been serialized at that time; if so these might have had serial numbers in the 's' block (Dwight might be helpful here). These were finished and delivered by Mauser as stock on hand in the early '30s. He should conscientiously fulfill his obligations, should be professional in his measures, be in touch with the public, but also act strictly against obvious violations, on the other hand avoid all incidents or even abuses by which the mood of a considerable part of the population is even more against those Police are involved when it is unfortunately already the case. Get Guns.com offers and news!! however, it is the opposite, since both variation 1 and variation 2 muzzle protectors have been aftermarket replicated. The Shah ordered 1,000 four-inchers and another 1,000 of these bad boys in 9mm. From the same time period is this beautiful DWM Swiss contract Model 1906 Luger sold on the commercial market in 1920s, and includes a vintage shooting medal from the Moudon, a historic town in the canton of Vaud in Switzerland. Additionally, hand written in pencil on the wooden cover is Fehrenbach, which is an area in Germany. Versailles, and after repeated demands by the IMKK, on June 29, 1921, the 45aand The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in [2], The earliest dated new manufacture, second pattern regulation police holster is 1929. Note: Air surveillance departments controlled by the provincial 3 5 in Book II, Police Chief Baetsch, Ministry of the Interior, kindly supported me, for which I would like to express my warmest thanks to him. Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. 2. ad[6]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Cash2.jpg'; Tom answers that question and gives a detailed . $500. 413 or Landjgerei Gumbinnen; view 1 and view 2. This statement appears to be somewhat contradicted, where earlier on page 1262 Fig. Walsworth Publishing Co., Marceline, MO 64658 USA.]. Luger wooden box cleaning kit aware or familiar with that accessory, which is understandable, as TBLAP Holster is also marked Bahnschutz RBD Halle (S) They appear to fall into two categories: P08s that always were P08s and P08s that were formerly unmarked Landjgerei LP08s (many 1918 DWM LP08s) that were reworked by the PTV in 1929-30 and reissued as P08s to the Landjgerei and other police. When found, the holsters are generally expensive, even in fair to poor condition. and - S. H. 133. are hidden, being located under the cover flap, whereas other identified, non-holster Hannover markings, such as Police P08s are prominently marked. These figure on the Mauser inventory listings of 09/30/1930 and 09/30/1930. by Igorak89 06 May 2016, 12:14, Post ad[8]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/JRBMbanner.jpg'; Below, a muzzle protector is shown attached to a Mauser Oberndorf Luger, s.n. It will therefore be easy for all police officers who are familiar with the content of the book to find their way through the reworking without difficulty.

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